Galentine’s Day with the Happy Hour Ladies
Galentine’s Day with the Happy Hour Ladies
Today is the last Friday of the month and my regular listeners know that on the last Friday of the month, I host the happy hour on the podcast where I gather great friends with me to drink cheap drinks and talk about money topics.
Today is the last Friday of February and one of my favorite holidays falls on February 13. In case you’re not aware of it, it’s Galentine’s Day. A day invented by the writers of Parks and Recreation, but now has grown to a larger scale to symbolize friendship, and the importance of friendships, in addition to the romantic relationships you celebrate on February 14. On today’s episode, I’m asking the ladies to give their best friend advice on a number of couple and money subjects that many of us have had to work through and maybe even wanted to ask some girl or guy friends about.
What are we drinking?
Melanie from Dear Debt, Lola Retreat, and MentalHealthandWealth.com — Horchata Martini
Tonya from Tonya-Stumphauzer.com — Sierra Nevada Beer
Liz, Mrs. Frugalwoods, from Frugalwoods.com — Gin & Tonic made with Barr Hill Gin, made in Vermont
Shannon — Bud Light
Podcast Notes
Shannon has questions in three different areas: relationships, friends, and family.
Relationships:
When dating, who pays for the first date and how do you handle paying after the first date?
Melanie always expects to pay for her half, because she doesn’t want to owe them something. If they want to see each other again, they can take turns from there. She has heard a different theory from other women who think men should pay, because of the wage gap.
Tonya feels weird if a guy doesn’t pay on a first date. She prefers a first date to be on the less expensive side, like coffee or a bike ride. If you continue to date, she is all for splitting it up. It isn’t about keeping score.
Liz hasn’t been on a first date in over 15 years, and she was in college when she started dating her husband. Their first date was to a college baseball game, which was free, and they had free hot dogs.
Shannon is 100 percent that the guy pays and she doesn’t owe him anything. As the relationship goes on, there should be fairness in dating. At some point, the conversation needs to be about income. If he is making three times more, that will change things.
Would you advise paying for a dating app? Is that money well spent or money wasted?
Melanie wouldn’t advise a paid dating app, because she doesn’t have experience with it. When she was on the free apps, it was all the same men, whether the app was free or paid. There are so many options. She wouldn’t recommend it, unless you truly believe you’ve exhausted all options. Maybe people paying for a dating service are more serious, but she is not convinced.
Tonya doesn’t know, because she hasn’t been on a dating app in a long time. She hates online dating, because it feels like an extra job. She is holding out for meeting someone in real life. If she was to do it, she would start off with the paid app and see how it goes. If it doesn’t go well after that, she would switch to a free one.
Liz never tried this option, however, she has a number of friends who met their spouses on dating apps.
Shannon thinks paying for an app is more of a commitment from the other person. If she was really serious, she would go to eHarmony, because just answering the questionnaire means you are committed to the process.
When do you get financially naked with someone?
Tonya doesn’t think there is an exact timeline for every person, it is when you feel a type of intimacy with the other person.
Melanie thinks it can be shared over time, it doesn’t have to be all at once.
Liz thinks you can glean a lot about how someone acts, it’s not like you need to see their spreadsheets. Disagreement over money is a leading cause of divorce. The sooner you can have a conversation about it, the better. You don’t need to put firm numbers on it to understand the other person’s philosophy about it.
Shannon feels like you should do it when the timing is right, but sooner is better than later to have general conversations, especially if you think it may turn into a serious relationship at some point. You will need to talk about money eventually, if you are going to be committed to this person. You should to test the intimacy waters sooner than later.
If one person makes more, how do you manage your household finances if you are living together?
Melanie thinks you should look at your income and how it relates to your bills. She used to think splitting 50/50 would make it equal, but with her ex, she realized it wasn’t fair. She readjusted, because she made more. If you can come up with a situation that makes sense for both parties, a different division of percentages might work out better.
Tonya doesn’t know, because she has never been in a situation where that came up, except for just dating and trips. She agrees with Melanie that you need to work it out for yourselves.
Liz thinks it is hard without knowing the specifics. She thinks it is important that everyone is contributing equally to the household, and that is not always financial. She recently had a case study on her blog that addresses this.
Shannon thinks it is important for both to contribute to the household and that is not always financial. There needs to be a fairness situation established. She sees it a lot at The Gym where a woman is making significantly less than the man and she is paying 50 percent of the rent and she can’t afford it. It needs to be more percentage based. A lot of times this happens unintentionally, which is why it is important to have these conversations.
Friends:
How do you manage having financially unhealthy friends? Do you keep them in your lives or do you let them go?
Tonya thinks you should keep them in your life. She has a lot of friends in various places on the financial spectrum. There are some who make a lot and spend a lot, some who make a lot and spend a little, and some who make a little and spend a lot. It is none of her business what they do, unless they are going to do something tragic. Her friends know she used to have a personal finance blog and will sometimes tell her financial things. If they ask her advice, she would give them her thoughts. She will be upfront with them if they invite her to do something she cannot afford. There is room for everybody, if they are important to you.
Melanie doesn’t think you need to get rid of people who are otherwise important to you, because they happen to be bad with money. It is not her place to fix them or save them. If they ask for her advice, she will happily give that to them. She doesn’t think it is any of her business. If it will mess with her finances, she will hang out less with that person, but it doesn’t mean she doesn’t value them.
Liz agrees with Tonya and Melanie. Most of her friends know what she does and what she writes about. Some do pull her aside and ask her questions. It is not her business what others do. Talking about money is not the focus of conversations with her friends. You have to let people live their lives.
Shannon thinks it is like people who do drugs. They can do it, but don’t try to make her do it to. With many clients, it is frustrating for her to see the impact of unhealthy friends’ behaviors on the client. When you are pressured to spend money, it is an unhealthy friendship. When you move toward a more financially healthy life, you run the risk of losing friends. It is all about boundaries.
What do you think about traveling with friends? Yes or no?
Melanie says yes in the right circumstances. For her 35th birthday, this past October, was the first time she ever traveled with friends, because she was always traveling with her ex. It resulted in a lot of Venmoing back and forth.
Tonya has traveled with friends and she had both good and bad experiences. It had to do with the personality of the person and less about the financial aspect of it. It depends.
Liz doesn’t have a lot of experience with it, because she is usually with her husband or by herself. She did go on a bachelorette weekend and she had a lot of fun. She wasn’t really worried about it, because it was only two or three days.
Shannon thinks it is a really difficult combination of the financial and personality aspect of it. If she doesn’t know how a person is going to behave over a few days, she doesn’t want to spend that much time with them. You don’t always know your friends’ travel behavior until you actually travel with them. If you mix too many friends, it is like a chemistry experiment, because you don’t know what is going to happen.
A good friend of yours loses their job and needs a place to stay. Can they stay with you? Do you charge them rent?
Melanie says they can stay with her for a finite amount of time that will be discussed prior to them moving in. She will not charge them rent. Depending on the level of friendship, that could be anywhere from a week to a month, but probably not more than that. There have to be limits and boundaries or things get weird.
Tonya agrees with Melanie. If it was Tonya staying with a friend after she lost her job, she would go out of her way to over contribute, by cleaning their house, walking their dog, etc.
Liz and her husband have had some friends stay with them for various reasons, and they didn’t set finite deadlines and they didn’t charge them rent. It was at times when they had a guest room. The longest guest was there about a month. It would be harder now, because she has kids.
Shannon definitely would take a friend in if they needed a place to stay, but she didn’t think about setting boundaries. She wouldn’t set it at a specific timeframe, it would depend on the situation. It would make a difference if they helped with her son.
Family:
You are concerned about your parents’ finances. What do you do?
Melanie would gauge where they are at, see how protective they are about the information, and share her experience as a motivator. You can’t change anybody, unless they want to change. She would show an appropriate amount of care and interest, but not a controlling amount. Gauge where they are at and then let it go. Melanie had this conversation with her parents and they gave her a sealed package with their financial details that she will open if something happens to them.
Tonya agrees with Melanie, but she has never been in that situation. Regardless of your parents’ financial situation, you need to have that conversation with them. Cameron Huddleston just wrote a book about this topic called, “Mom and Dad, We Need to Talk”. Listen to her episode with Shannon here.
Liz believes in leading by example. She and Nate had an estate plan done after their second daughter was born. They have an extremely detailed will and estate. They communicated to both sets of parents and siblings that they did it and they told them it was complicated. Liz had thought of all the top line stuff, but the lawyer thought about things like the residual royalties from Liz’s book. This opened the door to more conversation. She has since told a number of friends and referred them to her lawyer.
Shannon doesn’t believe you need to spend a lot of money on your will. There are some resources online, like legalzoom.com. If you love your family, make sure you have a will. Also, think about setting up a Power of Attorney, because that gets difficult if you are unable to manage your finances. You can’t force your parents to share. If they are not willing to share, they are probably not okay and caring for them needs to be part of your financial plan.
You have a family member who is in dire straights. Do you lend them money?
Melanie says it depends on the relationship and how much. If it is a close relationship and she has the money easily and she can think of it as a gift, then yes. If it would hurt her to help them, then no.
Tonya only has one family member who has asked her for money and she has very personal reasons as to why the answer is always no. A lot of people don’t understand it, but they also don’t understand the complexity of their relationship. For anyone else, she would need to assess the situation. As a general rule, she doesn’t think it’s a good idea. You think you are helping, but in some cases you are doing more harm than good.
Liz doesn’t believe it is anyone’s business and you need to make the best decision for you. She has never had anyone ask her, so it would very much depend on the situation and the person. You need to view it as a gift and not a loan, so you don’t have resentment over it.
Shannon thinks it absolutely has to be a gift. There are certain members of her family she would feel more comfortable giving to than others. Even though she would need to view it as a gift, with certain people she would have a tough time.
TAKEAWAY: My biggest takeaway is that friendships are the greatest gifts you can give yourself. You need to invest time, but the greatest of friendships require little more than that.
Speaking of great friends, I think of everyone on my team as a friend, and if you’re looking for a BFF, best financial friend, I hope you’ll reach out to my team at the Financial Gym and find out more. My financial trainers have literally seen it all and we don’t care how you got to where you are, we just care about getting you where you want to go. The great news is that Martinis and Your Money listeners get 15% off Financial Gym services, so head over to, or send friends to, financialgym.com to get signed up today.
If you have any topics you would like for us to talk about during happy hour, please feel free to email me at shannon@fingyms.com or tweet to me at blonde_finance or join the private martinis and your money Facebook group and let us know. Until next time, take care!!