Black Lives Matter with Kassandra Dasent

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Black Lives Matter with Kassandra Dasent

I’m not going to lie to you. These last few weeks, since May 25 when George Floyd was murdered by the Minnesota police department, have been the hardest of my life. Every time I think I’ve gotten through a difficult chapter (like divorce, saving the business from the brink of collapse, surviving a global pandemic), another challenging chapter presents itself.

As challenging as the last few weeks have been, though, I’m ready for this to bring systemic change in a broken system that’s been broken for over 400 years. I’m ready for the hard conversations, I’m ready to learn and I’m ready to amplify and use privilege for the good.

Joining me today is my friend Kassandra Dasent to discuss our feelings over the last few weeks and how we move forward to a place of light and love. If you’re uncomfortable with this podcast having these conversations, you’re welcome to not listen, but I encourage you to confront your discomfort and evolve from there.

What are we drinking?

Kassandra - Water

Shannon - Black Cherry Schweppes

Podcast Notes

  • Kassandra was on the podcast in October 2019, talking about When Relationships and Money Intersect.

  • Shannon and Kassandra met at FinCon, when they were both early on in their personal finance blogging days. Shortly after that, Kassandra left blogging and focused on her full-time job as a project manager. She came back to blogging and is now in both worlds.

  • Shannon asked Kassandra to come back on the podcast, because she wanted to have a conversation with a friend about what has been going on.

  • The topic is important to Kassandra as a Black woman. She is very proud to be a woman of color and what is going on in the world is both parts horrifying and hurtful. This time feels different than other times before.

  • Shannon didn’t respond on social media or to her employees right away, because it felt like another horrible tragedy that happened, but five days after the murder of Georg Floyd, she realized it was something bigger and she knew she had to say something. She doesn’t want this to be for naught, but she didn’t know what to say.

  • You hear about gun violence and race brutality from members of the police force and you become numb. Sometimes it is swept under the rug, sometimes justice is served, but oftentimes it isn’t.

  • This time, for Kassandra, what made her angry was the 8 minute and 42 second video of the officer with his knee on George Floyd’s neck. The stance the officer showed was of superiority, like the officer owned him.

  • Kassandra and her husband were overwhelmed with emotions ranging from hatred, anger, sadness, and grief. For the Black community, there is an interconnectedness, and when one is affected and hurt, all are affected and all hurt.

  • This hit Kassandra differently, because of the way the video came across and how the other officers didn’t pull the officer off of Floyd. No one made an effort. The protests are encouraging, because the Black population is out en masse.

  • During the civil rights movement, marches occurred in 110 cities and ended in violence after six days before the Civil Rights Act passed.

  • Protests have been going for eight days and there is no signs of it letting up. This is key. From the time the Act was passed until now, there have been strides, but there is a level of complacency that happens when you think things are to a point where they are okay.

  • We try to convince ourselves that we are way better off than we were before. That is a fatal mistake. When it comes to race, women’s issues, or gender issues, you can’t take your foot off the gas pedal ever.

  • The ‘60s took away overt racism but didn’t take away covert racism. This is a scarier place to be, because you don’t know who those people are.

  • Kassandra lived in Montreal for 30 years and she experienced underneath/covert racism while she was there. She was raised in a predominantly white, Jewish neighborhood and she doesn’t use slang, so she doesn’t sound “Black”.

  • After a phone interview with a potential employer, Kassandra had an in-person interview. The interviewer did a double take when Kassandra walked in. The interviewer couldn’t hide it and she said, “You don’t look how you sound”. Kassandra walked out.

  • You wonder who you can trust and who is your ally. White people in general say they are for Black people and support them, but Kassandra has discovered people who were friends were not actually friends.

  • Becoming friends with diverse people is how you become aware of issues. Shannon didn’t grow up with anyone who was Black, and she made her first black friend in high school.

  • Shannon met one of her close friends when she started working. She was Black and they had very open and honest conversations. She learned a lot from her.

  • Two and a half years ago, Shannon hired her first Black employees. There is a larger percentage of conversion for those two women than her white employees.

  • Shannon has heard from people who said The Gym was a safe place, because they saw two Black trainers on the website.

  • Last year, Shannon had conversations with the Black employees, and found out one wanted a diverse group of clients and one wanted predominantly Black clients because she gets anxious and gets in her head when the client is white.

  • This was the first time one of them had a conversation like this with her boss. It is important for leaders of companies to have these conversations. From that point on, there have been more honest conversations with the team.

  • We need to see representation of the black community from all levels of the company, and not just in certain positions.

  • The Gym is going to create a Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) Team. It is going to be done differently, because it is a top-down thing and Shannon is at the top.

  • Anyone who is running small to medium sized companies need to listen to their team and allow them the opportunity and safety to express how they feel. Some may not say anything and that is okay.

  • Many people are afraid, they don’t know what to say, and they don’t know the depth of how people are feeling about this. It is our responsibility to say something and it is up to us to fix this.

  • Where do we go from here? We all have to commit to lasting pressure, lasting change. The only way you hit the goal line is if it is eradicated from a systemic point of view, where you don’t have policies in housing that are racially oriented, or, from a financial point of view, people issuing loans to people of color at higher interest rates than whites.

  • We have to attack it from all pillars, all fronts, and we cannot be satisfied with hitting first base or making it to second, you need to get to home plate every, single time. That is a lot of work.

  • Sit back and take stock of what you are willing to do. Not all of us are born for or meant to do leadership work, but we can all do something. Even if it is only with your family.

  • There is a reckoning each of us need to face within ourselves, within our communities, and within our families. When you determine what you are willing, able, and prepared to do, you need to commit yourself to what that is and stay committed.

  • You can start by controlling you. It starts with the individual. It needs to be front and center in your home and community in a more active way.

  • If you are white, use your white privilege to its fullest advantage and be a white ally. Shannon is putting in a long-term plan, not just during Black History Month.

  • She is connecting the company to ideals, values, and core beliefs. She is making a very stark choice to position The Gym to be an ally and that may engender some blowback.

  • We need to keep those in positions of privilege accountable and figure out how to help each other. Beyond donating, reading books, and having conversations, step outside your little circle.

  • White people have a leg up in life. Kassandra had to work 10 times as hard to get to where she is today. If she didn’t have the white, female allies that she did, she would not be where she is, because they helped her break down the doors and they gave her their time and guidance.

  • Mentorship is something everyone can do and it doesn’t cost a thing. It has implications and repercussions that can be so powerful and positive.

  • It is a gift to understand where people are coming from. Those who still believe in white supremacy and unfair policies need to be the minority. This movement and these protests are pivotal. Keep the foot on the gas pedal and force people in a lane and thought process. Question why you think the way you do. Question the conditioning and question your feelings.

  • When you see Black Lives Matter and it makes you uncomfortable, ask yourself why you are uncomfortable. What is it about that messaging that takes you into a weird place. Commit to the long run.

  • There is so much pain and hurt and that is what needs to be fixed. It is good to sit and listen, but there is a time when listening is over and action needs to happen.

  • Listen, learn, and amplify. Speak up and do something concrete. No one deserves to die like this.

Takeaway: My biggest takeaway is to implore you to listen to and empathize with all of the stories you’re hearing. Until you can truly bring yourself to the point of feeling like you’re in someone else’s shoes, you won’t have the long term sustainable passion we need to fight this 400 year-old problem.

Connect with Kassandra

Website: www.kassandradasent.com

Insta/Twitter: @kassandradasent

If you have any topics you would like me to cover on this podcast, or If you’d like to get in the financially naked hot seat, I encourage you to email me to Shannon@fingyms.com, or join the private Martinis and Your Money Facebook group, and let me know what you want to hear.

Black lives matter and, in addition, black wealth matters. We’re currently offering scholarships to the Financial Gym to support this cause so if you are someone, or if you know someone, who could benefit from our service, please go to, or send them to, financialgym.com to get set up today.

Shannon McLayComment